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You insult me directly with all these statements.

No, I do not. I said that SOME scientists need [...] not all. I was only talking about those people who violently attack anyone that does not want vaccination for their children. In this thread, I am at no point, talking about you directly, or indirectly Alun.

People trust Ken on this issue in particular, because, the Prime Minister refuses to say whether his son has had single vaccinations or MMR. Ken is openly saying that he will not be giving his child this triple vaccination. That is, by definition, honest behavior. The Prime Minister, by withholding the information about his son, whether he has the right to or not, is being dishonest, especially as the choice of having single jabs is not being made readily available to the public, and he has the power to change that.

The public cannot be expected to read the academic research related to each of the medications that they take. The only thing they can do is trust someone, anyone who appears to be the most honest.

What fascinates me utterly is how pro vaccination lobbyists point blank refuse to take the concerns and requirements of the public into consideration. The good of the public does not equate to them having to swallow everything the medical establishment provides without question. They have been wrong about many drugs and products before, with disastrous consequences, and they can be wrong again. No one wants to be part of a large scale experiment (that THEY are not only paying for, but taking the risk in) that the drug companies were too cheap to carry out themselves.

No one can give a valid reason why these three vaccinations should be given at one time. People in control of policy at the highest level refuse to give it to their own children. The gut reaction conclusion is clear; it should be avoided.

Then, when you start to read about MMR, you find that there are studies saying that there is no advantage in giving the three in one. Even the most cursory look on the internet returns dozens of reports and studies throwing up a red flag about MMR, and yet, we are all expected to trust the people who made it when they say it is safe.

The motives of this industry are impure. Read about the varicella vaccination that has been created for no reason at all, except to make money. Chicken Pox is harmless. There is no reason on earth either to create a vaccination for it, or for anyone to be concerned about contracting it, or for anyone to be injected with it.

The conclusion of the layman, is that the people who are manufacturing these products cannot be trusted to put the health of the public before an opportunity to make money.

I must stress that this is not to say that all people involved in this industry are immoral and corrupt. What it does mean is that there is a fundamental flaw in the way that these public health issues are being addressed. There is a lack of compassion and willingness to serve the publics need as a primary function. The attitude of these professionals is cavalier, they run roughshod over people rights and condemn those members of the public that have the audacity to ask a question, never mind refusing the medicine full stop.

"in July 2001 the British Medical Association formally banned making single vaccines for measles, mumps, and rubella available"

This is precisely what I am talking about. If in fact, there is no difference between giving the three vaccinations singly or in triple form, there is no reason to *ban* the making of single vaccines, unless you want to corral people into taking the new MMR injection. These professionals cannot be trusted, they are in the pockets of the medical industry, and are actively working to reduce the choices available to the public, in close conjunction with the medical establishment, and in the USA, the legislature.

I would like to understand why there is only a minority of specialist persons who are speaking out against this. Of course, the ones that do have risked loosing their livelihoods for daring to contradict the status quo. That such pressure is put on people is intolerable, and it is rather telling that the other professionals never seem to rally around these perceived mavericks to ensure that both a two sided debate and choice for the public remain in place.

"The Immunization Campaign Against Measles, Mumps and Rubella - Medical Objections to a Continued MMR Immunization Campaign in Switzerland" (Journal of Anthroposophic Medicine, spring 1992; text available at http://www.trufax.org/vaccine/mmr4.html): After three years of study, a medical working group representing 180 Swiss medical doctors specializing in general medicine, internal medicine and pediatrics stated that "natural recovery from childhood diseases such as measles plays a role in the maturation of the human immune system and helps the individual develop resistance to disease, including chronic diseases such as asthma and cancer." Continued mass vaccination of infants could destroy the natural resistance of populations to childhood diseases and create virgin populations at risk for future epidemics.

Somehow, when these studies (this particular Swiss one being ten years old), are not brought to the publics attention, by anyone, you have to draw some conclusions. That, the professionals know about them but do not bring them to a discussion because it doesnt serve their purpose, two, the professionals havent read these studies (odd, when any layman can find them on the internet in 5 minutes). Either way, it is disturbing at the least, that these studies and in fact ALL studies and statistics that throw a light on the problems with vaccination (both the adverse reactions and the fundamental principles of it) never seem to enter the national debate. It might be wrong to conclude that this and the plethora of anti vaccination information is being deliberately kept out of the debate, but you would have to forgive the poor layman for reaching such a conclusion.

Part of the reason that emotions run at fever pitch (sorry, had to!) around this subject is because the public has an absolute need to completely trust medical professionals. When this trust is openly and brazenly betrayed for money, and then they are treated like idiots that dont have the right to even ask a question, then people can but only point an accusing finger at the professional that looks down on them as a kind of cattle.

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The Carabella Game

Episode 1: The Quest for Tunes

JB runs amongst other things:

How Are Vaccines Made?

Scientists estimate 30 billionEarths

Saudis spin like a well-oiled machine